We address some phenomena about the interaction between lower semicontinuous submeasures on $${\mathbb {N}}$$ N and $$F_{\sigma }$$ F σ ideals. We analyze the pathology degree of a submeasure and present a method to construct pathological $$F_{\sigma }$$ F σ ideals. We give a partial answers to the question of whether every nonpathological tall $$F_{\sigma }$$ F σ ideal is Katětov above the random ideal or at least has a Borel selector. Finally, we show a representation of nonpathological $$F_{\sigma }$$ (...) F σ ideals using sequences in Banach spaces. (shrink)