Our main results are: (A) It is consistent relative to a large cardinal that holds but fails. (B) If holds and are two infinite cardinals such that and λ carries a good scale, then holds. (C) If are two cardinals such that κ is λ‐Shelah and, then there is no good scale for λ.

We study a normal ideal on Pκ that is defined in terms of games.

We show that if κ is an infinite successor cardinal, and λ > κ a cardinal of cofinality less than κ satisfying certain conditions, then no ideal on Pκ is weakly λ+-saturated. © 2011 WILEY-VCH Verlag GmbH & Co. KGaA, Weinheim.